Japan was once the the undisputed global leader in robotics, but that’s simply not true today.

In fact, with China and America dominating the spotlight, many question whether Japan is even still in the game.

Well, last month I had the chance to find out what the world really thinks. At the inaugural Tokyo Humanoids Summit, I interviewed seven global leaders in robotics, and I asked each of them where exactly Japan stands and what Japan has to offer the rest of the world.

I’m compiled all their answers so you can hear the full range of what people are saying about robotics in Japan.

There are some great conversations, and I think you’ll enjoy them.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download | Embed

Subscribe: Apple Podcasts | RSS | More

Show Directory and Links

Transcript

Welcome to Disrupting Japan, Straight Talk from Japan’s most innovative founders and VCs.

I’m Tim Romero, and thanks for joining me.

Last month, at the Tokyo Humanoid Summit, I had a chance to interview seven of the leading innovators in the field of humanoid robotics from around the world.

Now, I’ll be sharing the full interviews on Disrupting Japan’s social channels, and I encourage you to check them out. There are some really interesting discussions there. Of course, with industry leaders flying into Tokyo from around the globe, there was one question that I wanted to ask all of them.

What does Japan really have to offer globally? How can Japan compete and even regain its status as a global leader in robotics? I mean, is this even possible now? Well, I’ve collected all of their responses into a single, focused episode for you. You’ll see that there are some common themes and also a few surprises. But overall, the world is feeling very optimistic about what’s happening in Japan.

But you know, my guests tell that much better than I can. So let’s get right to the interviews. So we’re sitting here with Junghee Ryu, the founder and CEO of RLWRLD, who’s building dexterity models for robots.

Ryu Junghee,  Founder and CEO of RLWRLD

Tim: Thanks for sitting down today.

Junghee: Thank you for having me today.

Tim: You’ve got an office here in Japan. You’ve spent a lot of time in Japan. What unique strengths do you think Japan has in the area of humanoid robotics and physical AI?

Junghee: One of the biggest pros of the Japanese market is the culture. Think about the US citizens. They hesitate to just embrace the power of the humanoid. But in Japan, I met a lot of their kind of C-suites here. They know the power of humanoid because you guys already experienced the early times and the robot like Ashimo or Aibo.

And there are a lot of their animations like Atom, Gundam, Evangelion. So culturally, I think that the Japanese society is ready for embracing the human power.

Tim: You know, that’s a really interesting point, because in media and popular culture in Japan, robots and humanoid robots in particular are almost always positive and helpful.

Junghee: Yeah, the companion of humankind.

Tim: Right. And like in Hollywood movies, they tend to be very dangerous.

Junghee: Yeah. The enemy of mankind.

Tim: Right. You get the Terminator. So that’s really interesting. And have you found that in your conversations in Japan and your pilots that companies are more willing and more open?

Junghee: Yeah, because the Japanese society suffered about population cliffs since 30 years ago. So it’s a long time. So mostly their industry leaders, they understand the urgency, the demands for automation, especially the focus on the humanoid. Already they automated almost everything. But the remaining things should be done by their human level dexterity and intelligence. That’s why.

Tim: Well, it’s definitely exciting times. And it sounds like you guys are doing great things in Japan.

Junghee: Not only great things for Japan, great things for all the mankind in this world.

Tim: Absolutely. So thanks so much for sitting down.

Junghee: Thank you for having me.

Tim: I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you.

Leopold Beer, VP Sensing Division of Renesas Electronics

Tim: So we’re sitting here with Leopold Beer, the VP and General Manager of the Sensing Division of Renesas Electronics. So thanks for sitting down.

Leopold: Thank you for having me.

Tim: So listen, with your time in Japan and at this Humanoid Summit, what unique strengths do you think Japan has to offer the world in terms of humanoid robotics and physical AI?

Leopold: Definitely there are lots of things that Japan brings in already today and can bring in in the future. Starting from my company, Renesas, with the broad portfolio of semiconductors, we already serve lots of these applications. But when you look at the specific context of Japan, Japan always has been an innovator in terms of robotics and automization. And I think the Japanese society is much more open to technology than in some European societies.

I’m not talking for the US, but in Europe, there’s always a kind of skepticism. When you bring in a new technology, okay, what’s the risk? And I think Japan is much opener to technology. So having the foundation of these strong technologies companies, and I name Renesas one of them, but there are others playing very strongly in the field of automization.

And given this openness of the society, and as we heard this morning, even the willingness of the society to bring in more automation as a solution to solve social problems, but Japan is the perfect environment.

Tim: And so do you see this openness on both the industrial commercial side and the consumer side?

Leopold: Absolutely. I think there are two sides of the story. On one hand, of course, robot manufacturers, they want to push their solution. On the other side, there needs to be an acceptance and the pull from the market. And I think we have both in Japan.

Tim: So Japan might end up being the perfect testbed, the perfect place for proof of concepts to figure out how to make all of this really work.

Leopold: I would say yes. That’d be fantastic.

Tim: Well, listen, Leopold, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down.

Leopold: It was a pleasure.

Tim: I’ve really enjoyed it.

Leopold: It was a good talk. Thank you.

 

Mehrdad Farimani, Founder and CTO of MERPHI

Tim: So we’re sitting here with Mehrdad Farahmani, the founder and CTO of MERPHI. So thanks for sitting down.

Mehrdad: Thank you, great to be here.

Tim: With your time in Japan so far and what you’ve seen here at the Humanoid Summit, what unique strengths do you think Japan has to offer the rest of the world in terms of humanoid robotics and in physical AI?

Mehrdad: Absolutely. So when I was very junior, young in robotics, Japan was the place to go for humanoids. We had Asimo and we had all these great robots from SoftBank and we had all these different companion robots and social robots.

Tim: That was more than 20 years ago.

Mehrdad: It was, right?

Tim: It’s amazing.

Mehrdad: And there were actually, to be honest, there were two countries who were really leading robotics. One was Japan, the other was Germany. So Germany or DLR in Germany, they created some of the greatest robots out there. So has Japan. And Japan was, of course, leading more.

And then one of my surprises over the years was that what happens to both Germany and Japan. Germany also, they really slowed down. And actually, we had this funny conversation with a friend the other day and we were like, okay, is it that they slowed down or the other countries they kicked off? Because I remember in 2012 that there were only six countries that they were building humanoid robots.

So of course, US, France, Germany, Japan, and we had Iran and then one more country, I don’t remember. China was not even among them, right? And now we see that China is actually leading a lot in the human area only in this 15, 20 years. So one of the things is that for me, what has always been interesting about Japan is the culture that accepts robots.

People who live with robots and they like robots. And one of the greatest robots, not a humanoid, unfortunately, but one of the greatest robots created in the history of robotics is a robot called Paro, P-A-R-O. It’s a robot for elderly care. It’s a companion robot.

Tim: Oh, yes, yes, absolutely.

Mehrdad: There’s an amazing story behind it. Technologically, it’s competing very well with today’s technology and everything. But so what was the story? There was this research center. They built that robot. They built something around 3,000 units. They distributed all over the world. Actually, in Sweden that I’m living, we have a few of them.

And they’re in the museums mostly. And then they stopped. They stopped the production because they were like, yeah, this was a research project. Research is done. So we don’t want to make money out of it.

Tim: I see that happening so much. There’s so much wonderful innovation and then it never gets fully commercialized.

Mehrdad: Exactly. I have two reasons for that, actually, so today my job is mostly, to be honest, advising investors and startups mostly on the human area. And I usually think a lot about what are the underlying reasons behind this.

One of the reasons is that robotic companies has historically been created by roboticists. Even today they are. It’s only the few past years that they were created by business people or entering robotics.

Engineers and roboticists, they don’t really have so much ambition to scale the product and go to the market. And that’s one of the reasons that we see Japan is full of great engineers, full of great creators, full of creative people, and they make very creative stuff, but it doesn’t mean that the same people can scale it. And this culture of handing over, engineers handing over the company to business people, I would say this is a very American culture and has been working out pretty well.

Even in Europe, we don’t have that culture, right? In Europe, it’s more like an ecosystem culture that people want to partner up, create a consortium to build a bigger product. That’s why Europe hasn’t really kicked off in humanoids yet. But I don’t know exactly about Japanese culture in that sense, but I believe that Japanese people or engineers are very in love with creation, but not necessarily monetization.

Tim: So they can just find a way to monetize all this creative work that’s being done. It would be fantastic.

Mehrdad: And there are great companies out there. I saw a companion robot the other day from a company, Casio, which historically, if you’re an engineer, you know with the calculators or the watches and everything, but now they’re making companion robots. And I think those companies have the power to scale it, right? Although we saw the same pattern with SoftBank buying Aldebarans, Now and Pepper, two of the greatest, almost human robots created, and then didn’t work out because of the market timing and all those things. So, yeah, it’s interesting.

One thing, I actually, in a few days, I will meet somebody in Japan. It’s an old robotic R&D Japanese company. They have created some of the greatest companion robots. And one of the questions I want to ask him is that, what is it about Japanese culture that you’re so easy to accept robots? And what is it about other cultures that makes it so hard for them to accept robots?

Tim: I do think Japan is unique in that aspect. Absolutely. Well, listen, Mehrdad, thanks so much for sitting down with us. I really appreciate it.

Mehrdad: Likewise. Thank you very much.

 

James Wells, CEO of Sanctuary AI

Tim: So we’re sitting here with James Wells, the CEO of Sanctuary AI. So thanks for sitting down with us.

James: Great to be here.

Tim: Lovely to be in Tokyo. Listen, with your time in Japan so far and your experience here at the Humanoid Summit, what unique strengths do you think Japan has? What does it have to offer the rest of the world in terms of humanoid robotics and physical AI?

James: Yeah, it’s a good question. I feel like the culture here is very pro-robots. Obviously, there’s low birth rate and declining demographics. So I feel like the society sort of feels this need to address the declining population and labor shortage. There’s also a deep history in pioneering robotics innovation, right? With Asimo and Toyota.

And then you’ve got just great OEMs and industries that build complex systems that have to last for a long time that scale. So the automotive industry seems like a very natural complement to the human. So I think, and I just listened to a speaker talk about the policy that they want to implement now.

And so there seems to be just all the great ingredients to do it. The big difference, you know, with Canada, where I’m from, and Japan, with China is China is pouring capital in before there’s proven ROI in these systems. And so they are taking away the risk to allow these suppliers to build at scale and iterate before there’s adoption.

And that’s a really aggressive way to kind of mature a technology. But given how disruptive it’s going to be, it seems to be the right bet.

Tim: Right. So you think Japan could be really, because of the acceptance of AI and robotics, it could be good for a lot of new experimentation, use cases.

James: For sure. Yeah. And, you know, a robot needs a dance partner. And what I mean is, I know what you mean. Yeah, that’s a great way to put it. Needs an environment to interact and work with. And without a customer willing to iterate and learn how to dance with the robot, the industry can’t proliferate. I mean, we face a little bit of this conservatism in Canada as well. But the States is moving quickly. And I hope Japan starts too as well. Fantastic.

Tim: Hey, well, listen, James, thanks so much for sitting down with us. I really appreciate it.

James: No problem. Thanks. Great to be here.

 

Rikiya Yamamoto, CEO of Yamariki Edge

Tim: So we’re sitting here with Rikiya Yamamoto, the CEO of Yamakari Edge and the creator of Robot Made Hub.

Rikiya: Yeah.

Tim: So thanks for sitting down with us. Nice to meet you.

Rikiya: Thank you again.

Tim: What do you think are Japan’s unique strengths that it can really bring to the world in terms of humanoid robotics and physical AI?

Rikiya: Thank you. That’s a great question. At least Australia, I think. One is a culturalistic area to accept the robotics in the human being society. As you mentioned, historically speaking, there are a lot of animations about robotics.

So we are possibly to accept the robot as the being, not the animal, but the work with the human being. This kind of the culturalistic sense is one of the specialties of Japan. And the second is the parts and the key parts.

There are a lot of companies outside of the human summit. And as I mentioned, this is still, there’s a specialty for the human robot area. Like the weight shall be lighter and the performance of the battery is very important to keep that robot working more than the 80 watts, for example.

Tim: Right, right, right.

Rikiya: So this kind of key parts is one of the core a part of the Japan market. And the third one is due to the population situation; elderly care is very important for us. So this kind of the niche industry, Japan has the human being who need to work with human and robot at the same time.

Tim: Well, that makes sense. I mean, there’s with the aging population, the declining population as well. There’s a real need for the robotics. There’s just economic need for companies to experiment and to try new things that doesn’t exist as strongly anywhere else compared to Europe or the US or China. I don’t think they have as pressing need to substitute that kind of labor that Japan does right now.

Rikiya: I assume that like, service level of that retail store, for example, and the communication level is very high. Maybe, you know, omotenashi. This kind of the sense Japan has compared to the other countries. So this kind of data is one of the point and we need to like, get us the asset of Japan.

Tim: Well, you know, that is that is a really interesting point because on one hand, that human interaction is so important to Japan, even in commercial transactions. It’s a part of a brand.

It’s a part of respect for the customer. But on the other hand, Japanese consumers and Japanese societies are very accepting of robots and automation. How do you think those two will play out in the future?

Rikiya: Interesting question. Entering level of the communication with the robot is very accepting. So there’s a lot of startup companies can start their business in the area of the society robotics area. However, from my experience, even they accepted to use the robotics as the first month, for example, they changed their mind suddenly.

They started to ask us, could you please improve more and more and more to like natural conversation, to take care of themselves more naturally. So the timeline is a little bit different. First time of the communication with the robotics is very acceptable. After that, it’s a little bit severe.

Tim: So their expectations just get higher and higher?

Rikiya: Yeah, higher and higher.

Tim: How long do you work with it?

Rikiya: Day by day.

Tim: Oh my. Yeah.

Rikiya: So it’s necessary to follow their expectation as the omotenashi sense.

Tim: Right, right.

Rikiya: Yeah. So it always will be that human robotics pairing, I think.

Tim: Yes. Excellent. Yeah.

Rikiya: And depends on their mind, personality, communication, customization is very important.

Tim: Yeah. Well, Rikiya, thank you so much for sitting down with us.

Rikiya: Thank you so much.

Tim: Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it.

 

Hagen Wegner, Director at FEV Consulting

Tim: We’re sitting here with Hagen Wegner, the director of FEV Consulting, and thanks for sitting down with us.

Hagen: You’re welcome. Happy to be here.

Tim: So what unique strengths do you think Japan has to offer the world in humanoid robotics and in physical AI in general?

Hagen: We are active in Japan for the last 10, 15 years now with FEV Consulting. And what is really amazing here is the amount of R&D and what kind of innovation Japanese companies have internally. It’s just about getting to know it and to bring it to the market. This is one of the key challenges, but there are huge opportunities. And Japan has a legacy because the first humanoids actually came up in the 19… What was it? 1780s. So they know how to do it.

Tim: Yeah. 25 years ago. I mean, Japan was the undisputed leader in humanoid robotics.

Hagen: Yeah, absolutely. And there is a lot more to come in terms of new materials, which is a really important point for the humanoids, these material innovations. Humanoids need to be lightweight, durable, everything. And there are so many ideas around for new skins, new structural frames, new magnets for actuators. There is really a lot to come here from Japan.

Tim: That’s fantastic. Well, listen, Hagen, thank you so much for sitting down with me. I really appreciate it.

Hagen: Thank you very much.

 

Terence Bennett, Executive Director of Bay Area Robotics Association

Tim: So we’re sitting here with Terence Bennett, the Executive Director at the Bay Area Robotics Association. So thanks for sitting down with us. I appreciate it.

Terence: Absolutely. My pleasure. Yeah, happy to be here.

Tim: So what unique strengths do you think Japan has to offer the world in terms of humanoid robotics and in physical AI?

Terence: Well, as I said in my opening remarks, Japan really led the world in how to think about human-centered robotics.

Tim: Oh, yeah.

Terence: I mean, for decades, we’ve seen these incredible, really thoughtful, really innovative designs. And while AI has really kind of flourished and accelerated in the United States, it’s not going to take much for Japan to really catch up and start to implement and integrate these world models and these capabilities into their robotic stack.

I think Japan is often very thoughtful in the way they think about and implement technology. I think the US can be a little bit kind of like the Wild West, just move fast and break things.

Tim: Right, right.

Terence: And so—

Tim: Which is not necessarily what you want with robotics.

Terence: It’s not. It’s absolutely not. And it’s causing a lot of sort of pause, right, in industry like we’ve talked about. Because in the real world, you’ve got liability, and you’ve got lawsuits, and you’ve got safety standards, you’ve got OSHA. And so there’s a lot of kind of fighting of interests and people trying to really figure out how this makes sense.

And I think that the Japanese are watching how it takes place, and they’re taking what they want from kind of the US. And I have full faith that they’re going to find a really, really great kind of place where it all plugs together.

Tim: The next three to five years in Japan should be very interesting for robotics.

Terence: I think the next three to five years is going to be really interesting across the world. But especially around robotics in Japan, in the United States, in the Bay Area, in China, in Korea, I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t feel like this is kind of the center of something absolutely incredible.

Tim: All right. Fantastic. Well, Terrence, thanks so much for sitting down with me. I really appreciate it.

Terence: Yeah, absolutely. My pleasure. Thanks.

Outtro

And we’re back.

You know, one of the things that most struck me from both my interviews with these leaders in humanoid robotics, as well as my conversations with the people attending the Humanoid Summit, was the genuine excitement about what is happening in Japan right now.

Oh, there’s no question that China and the US are the ones pushing that technology envelope at the moment. But Japan’s not out of the game.

In fact, it’s clear the world is expecting great things from Japan.